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  #31  
Old May 12th 2011, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

Anyway, regarding communication, I just want to point out how hypocritical stances like vegetarianism and being pro-animal rights are.

A plant does not hurt anyone. Literally, photosynthesis depends upon water, minerals, sunlight, CO2, and chlorophyll. Nowhere in photosynthesis does the extermination of other organisms take place.

In contrast, herbivores kill plants all the time.

If anything, if you're really an environmentalist, your goal should be to exterminate all herbivores from the planet in order to protect the innocence of plants. On the other hand, you shouldn't use that as an excuse to breed herbivores either. That would be provocation and entrapment.

Not only that, but you should spite poor people who depend upon crude methods of consumption such as the harvesting of plants in order to stay alive.

In fact, if you want to play the negative communication game, then you should also be against free speech as well because for all you know, plants might loathe the torture of animal noise.
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  #32  
Old May 12th 2011, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

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Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
Anyway, regarding communication, I just want to point out how hypocritical stances like vegetarianism and being pro-animal rights are.

A plant does not hurt anyone. Literally, photosynthesis depends upon water, minerals, sunlight, CO2, and chlorophyll. Nowhere in photosynthesis does the extermination of other organisms take place.

In contrast, herbivores kill plants all the time.

If anything, if you're really an environmentalist, your goal should be to exterminate all herbivores from the planet in order to protect the innocence of plants.

Not only that, but you should spite poor people who depend upon crude methods of consumption such as the harvesting of plants in order to stay alive.
I presume you're just trolling. Do you know what an environmentalist is?
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  #33  
Old May 12th 2011, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

No, I'm not trolling tbqh.

To me, an environmentalist is someone who claims to be sophisticated, but in reality, is very shortsighted. An environmentalist is someone who appeals to the aesthetic beauty of experiencing nature as a reason to preserve it.

Unfortunately, environmentalists don't realize that beauty comes at a cost, and they expect people to put up with that cost. They project their senses of taste upon others without realizing that different people have different methods of taste.
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  #34  
Old May 12th 2011, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

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No, I'm not trolling tbqh.

To me, an environmentalist is someone who claims to be sophisticated, but in reality, is very shortsighted. An environmentalist is someone who appeals to the aesthetic beauty of experiencing nature as a reason to preserve it.

Unfortunately, environmentalists don't realize that beauty comes at a cost, and they expect people to put up with that cost. They project their senses of taste upon others without realizing that different people have different methods of taste.
I disagree, but that definition is a far cry your assertion that environmentalists should decry any death of a living organism. Which is completely silly.

I think the indication of an environmentalist is someone who is interested in ecological sustainability. It has little to do with beauty (though undoubtedly many do appreciate natural aesthetic). They realize the costs (Look at Andrew's posting history, he certainly does). They are short term costs for long term sustainability.
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  #35  
Old May 12th 2011, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

You're begging the question over what deserves to be sustained.

Beauty is how environmentalists make that decision. If it's beautiful, then it deserve sustenance. If it's not beautiful, then it doesn't deserve sustenance. The exception is for ugliness that provides sustenance, but that depends upon the sustenance of beauty.
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  #36  
Old May 12th 2011, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

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You're begging the question over what deserves to be sustained.

Beauty is how environmentalists make that decision. If it's beautiful, then it deserve sustenance. If it's not beautiful, then it doesn't deserve sustenance. The exception is for ugliness that provides sustenance, but that depends upon the sustenance of beauty.
Back that claim up?
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  #37  
Old May 12th 2011, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/en...al-aesthetics/

Enjoy.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...table_strategy

In order to define "fitness", you have to have a sensory preference which depends on beauty. You have to choose what qualifies as proper form of organization (or forms of emergence).
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  #38  
Old May 12th 2011, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

Sorry, that link doesn't prove shit.

Try this one on: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/environmentalist

Edit: my point being that you are necessarily complicating things.
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Last edited by Donkey; May 12th 2011 at 10:09 AM.
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  #39  
Old May 12th 2011, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

Here are some excerpts you might be interested in as well from Nature, Aesthetics, and Environmentalism: From Beauty to Duty:

http://hettingern.people.cofc.edu/He...er=webcluster&
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  #40  
Old May 12th 2011, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Enviropessimism

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Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
Here are some excerpts you might be interested in as well from Nature, Aesthetics, and Environmentalism: From Beauty to Duty:

http://hettingern.people.cofc.edu/He...er=webcluster&
I am not saying that aesthetic is not a motivator. But YOU are claiming that it is the only factor. Which is bull.
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