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  #21  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 08:16 PM
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Dominick Dominick is offline
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

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Originally Posted by partofme View Post
The thing is if I'm going to take the time to take part in these things or pay money to do them then I want some concrete evidence they work. I'm completely open to the idea there are alternatives out there that work but I'm not simply willing to take somebody's word for it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31190909/

And if these companies are trying to figure out these treatments then I'm happy to pay for them because presently I either do not have access to them or have no way of knowing which ones are really credible.
How much does MSNBC get paid from pharmaceutical advertisers ? It's a serious question. How can a company that's dependent on the advertising money of the pharmaceutical industry -and we're talking real money here- be expected to report objectively on these matters ?
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  #22  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
How much does MSNBC get paid from pharmaceutical advertisers ? It's a serious question. How can a company that's dependent on the advertising money of the pharmaceutical industry -and we're talking real money here- be expected to report objectively on these matters ?
The studies are government funded according to the article. If you can't trust either private or publicly funded studies then what can you trust? The only other source one can look for on these things is the companies that sell herbal remedies and they sure as hell would be biased. What bugs me is that people buy these remedies which are also a big business while talking about how awful the pharmaceutical companies are but unlike them these herbs are sold pretty much unregulated. I have no way of knowing how well they really work or even if I'm getting what they say they are on the label.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/...Rzc2hvd21hbg--

Last edited by partofme; Jun 11th 2009 at 08:27 PM.
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  #23  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

My view is that I want evidence. If scientific evidence isn't available, then I, personally, am willing to except anecdotal evidence. However, that's for my health. For the health of others, such as loved ones and children, I demand scientific evidence of the validity of the treatment. Anecdotes are not science and that is all herbal remedies have to offer, which is not good enough for my (hypothetical) children.
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  #24  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

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Originally Posted by Greendruid View Post
I think all of this needs to be referred back to our many threads (too many to have me go back and re-post them here) that concern the differing ideologies in place here. All of you who are opposed to anything but proven medical science have that position because you were raised to have that position. There are so many cultures around the world that have no concept of the scientific method and yet have developed very effective cures and methods of healing that would have you laughing.

If you hold the position that illness is only physiological and, thus, the same as disease, then you will always pooh-pooh alternative methods that stray from this model. The fact is, the world is filled with people and healers in other cultures who have no such model as their primary one and recognise a spiritual component, an emotional component, an ancestral component, a magical component, etc., to suffering illness. All of them are different and many of them are indeed much older than modern medicine. In fact, you probably owe your existence to an ancestor or two that was a patient of such a healer and was cured of their illness.

And before you bring up the survival rates card, in the end, we're all dead. What value is there to a life ended with struggling for a cure that doesn't exist. I watched my father die for seven weeks in a hopeless effort to cure him of something he was largely stoic about for several months leading up to his death. Our medical system needs more humanism and less medicalisation in my opinion. Our culture needs a better attitude towards illness and death.
I've experienced the horrible deaths by cancer of my father, father-in-law and oldest best friend. All were put through the fruitless radiation and chemotherapy drills and none had any physical or mental relief after being told their conditions were inoperable until opiates were provided to remove them from reality. Thankfully I reside in Oregon. For those of you unfamiliar with US 'humanity', Oregon has the only legislation in the US for allowing physician assisted suicide when untreatable, terminal medical conditions exist. Though I'd probably chase the dragon under those circumstances without the 'treatments'.
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  #25  
Old Jun 11th 2009, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

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I've experienced the horrible deaths by cancer of my father, father-in-law and oldest best friend. All were put through the fruitless radiation and chemotherapy drills and none had any physical or mental relief after being told their conditions were inoperable until opiates were provided to remove them from reality. Thankfully I reside in Oregon. For those of you unfamiliar with US 'humanity', Oregon has the only legislation in the US for allowing physician assisted suicide when untreatable, terminal medical conditions exist. Though I'd probably chase the dragon under those circumstances without the 'treatments'.
I'm with you. I watched my grandfather lie in a hospital bed in his living room for two months in an opiate glaze before he died. I decided then I didn't want to go like that. While I like the scientific treatments to "suffering" conditions (GERD, OSA), I would prefer to avoid the life depreciating procedures that go along with fatal conditions.
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  #26  
Old Jun 12th 2009, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
I'm with Greendruid on this. The current Western commercially driven reductionist approach to health is after all only some 70 years old. It's not like before that or elsewhere people were dropping down in the street two at a time on every corner.
In fact, many of the molecules that are now privatized and "patented" have been known to other cultures for centuries and occur naturally in the vegetation, especially in rainforests. The only difference is that in those other contexts the same molecule was not actually known or understood in the scientific sense and the treatment was therefore embellished by ritual. By criticizing or dismissing the ritual due to scepticism one forgets that it's not the ritual that does the healing (although it may well have a benefical additional impact but that's another story) but the molecule.
Alas I can't find the link anymore but there was a recent report on the BBC site that mentioned the extensive research that's been done in deciphering Mayan stelae to find out which plants exactly they depict and how they were being used by them. It would appear that the big pharmaceutical companies are much less sceptic about this than the general public.
Of course once they do decipher it, the previously freely available molecule will be patented, processed and packaged and cost you or the healthcare services 50 €. Which is what health is all about after all. At least today it is.
I think you and I see this the same way, largely. If there is some ancient, spiritual that works, it is because somewhere, during the course of that ritual, some actual causal event is occurring, even if the practitioners of the spiritual process are oblivious or think that some God or spirit is just making things happen. And, I believe in studying those rituals, isolating potential causal factors, and parlaying them into whatever advantage can be had.

I think the problem occurs when people look at it the other way around. Rather than distilling the causal event from the mumbo-jumbo, a lot of people are just looking for the mumbo-jumbo itself. For instance, let's say that the Mayans or some other "native" culture had a ritual that involved dancing around a fire, eating some kind of nearby plant, blood-letting, and then sleeping for 12 hours and this was known to treat illness X. My approach would be to isolate the various activities and try them out as treatment for X. If that didn't work, perhaps the combination of some of the activities might work. Either way, you reduce the ritual to the causal event(s).

But, regarding what I was saying about above - people looking for the mumbo-jumbo - you have this whole cottage industry of non-native peoples who believe that the healing activity is just the fact of getting in touch with the natives or something. These people might be equally amenable to the "Mayan Treatment" that skips the eating of the plant and blood-letting in favor of buying stones that harness organic chi or something. That is, participants in this nonsense may not even be duplicating the actual, original rituals that work, opting instead to waste their time with what essentially amounts to the selling of snake oil branded with Indian decorations.
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  #27  
Old Jun 13th 2009, 10:44 AM
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Americano Americano is offline
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

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Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
I think you and I see this the same way, largely. If there is some ancient, spiritual that works, it is because somewhere, during the course of that ritual, some actual causal event is occurring, even if the practitioners of the spiritual process are oblivious or think that some God or spirit is just making things happen. And, I believe in studying those rituals, isolating potential causal factors, and parlaying them into whatever advantage can be had.

I think the problem occurs when people look at it the other way around. Rather than distilling the causal event from the mumbo-jumbo, a lot of people are just looking for the mumbo-jumbo itself. For instance, let's say that the Mayans or some other "native" culture had a ritual that involved dancing around a fire, eating some kind of nearby plant, blood-letting, and then sleeping for 12 hours and this was known to treat illness X. My approach would be to isolate the various activities and try them out as treatment for X. If that didn't work, perhaps the combination of some of the activities might work. Either way, you reduce the ritual to the causal event(s).

But, regarding what I was saying about above - people looking for the mumbo-jumbo - you have this whole cottage industry of non-native peoples who believe that the healing activity is just the fact of getting in touch with the natives or something. These people might be equally amenable to the "Mayan Treatment" that skips the eating of the plant and blood-letting in favor of buying stones that harness organic chi or something. That is, participants in this nonsense may not even be duplicating the actual, original rituals that work, opting instead to waste their time with what essentially amounts to the selling of snake oil branded with Indian decorations.
For a moment I thought you were describing the plethora of self-help authors that dominate book sales.
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  #28  
Old Oct 10th 2009, 01:58 AM
dannydesiliva dannydesiliva is offline
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

Dear all,
Can any one tell me whether Indian board of alternative medicine
Course is ugc recognized ?
Regds
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  #29  
Old Feb 10th 2010, 07:23 PM
housefull housefull is offline
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

I accept with information:Maybe there is some alternative treatments out there that really work as well as mainstream medicine but from my experience it's mostly crap and big companies that unlike pharmaceutical companies are not regulated at all by the FDA selling useless plants in pill form
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  #30  
Old Feb 17th 2010, 07:52 AM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Default Re: Alternative Medicine

As a natural skeptic, I can't trust a product that takes faith in order to work. Unfortunately, this also means that it's not rocket science to figure out it's an extremely lucrative market.
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