Discussion World Forum  


Go Back   Discussion World Forum > Discussion Forums > Science

Science From your kid's science project to relativity, this is the place to discuss it.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old Feb 22nd 2010, 12:00 PM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 627
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
From any corporate viewpoint government regulation/enforcement is far less expensive and more effective in crushing smaller competition to control markets than merely offering product based on claimed merits.
Well, that's certainly big kudos to US drug enforcement agencies.

How come more industries don't use the same approach? Should fashion houses, for example, start to lobby for approval regulations of textiles (whatever the criteria) so that the government could crush potential competitors that circumvent, can't or won't spend what it takes to achieve approval?
__________________
Recogito ergo est
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Feb 22nd 2010, 12:09 PM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
Well, that's certainly big kudos to US drug enforcement agencies.

How come more industries don't use the same approach? Should fashion houses, for example, start to lobby for approval regulations of textiles (whatever the criteria) so that the government could crush potential competitors that circumvent, can't or won't spend what it takes to achieve approval?
Bemused giggles. All industries try to use the government to close down competition.

The fashion industry is doing quite well - they already have very stiff tariffs and regulations to protect themselves from competition.

Indeed, the textile industry is probably the number one most tariff-protected industry in the USA (as it is in most countries).

I agree with Americano - rigging the regulations and buying the regulator is a very good investment for most companies. Most of them have been playing this game for decades. Small investments pay huge dividends here.
__________________
Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Feb 22nd 2010, 12:11 PM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 627
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Because the lawsuits for defective products would likely put big Pharma away for good.

Do you realize how many billions they pay out annually already - even with strong regulatory monitoring for safety?

No, Big Pharma accepts the regulations because they are cheaper than a blockbuster class-action suit which could wipe out a company entirely.

Indeed, wiping out regulations opens the market up to the generic drug suppliers and that would also wipe out Big Pharma' fat profits that are 100% dependent upon regulatory control over the marketplace.

Big Pharma doesn't like free markets at all. I think they have far more to loose than gain from eliminating all regulations.
Are you saying that pharmaceutics as an industry runs a higher risk with defective products than any other industry? If so, how come?
__________________
Recogito ergo est
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Feb 22nd 2010, 12:35 PM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 627
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Bemused giggles. All industries try to use the government to close down competition.

The fashion industry is doing quite well - they already have very stiff tariffs and regulations to protect themselves from competition.

Indeed, the textile industry is probably the number one most tariff-protected industry in the USA (as it is in most countries).
That's what I meant before. If pharma lobbyists went for removing the entire set of safety regulations then they'd be on equal footings with the non-regulated drug-"suppliers", which they could then crush competitionwise. Sure, non-regulated drug-"suppliers" can still skew competition by circumventing trade and worker regulations, as can fashion industry pirates, but it's not a regulation on the product.
__________________
Recogito ergo est
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Feb 22nd 2010, 12:52 PM
Americano's Avatar
Americano Americano is offline
Globetrotter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,614
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
Well, that's certainly big kudos to US drug enforcement agencies.

How come more industries don't use the same approach? Should fashion houses, for example, start to lobby for approval regulations of textiles (whatever the criteria) so that the government could crush potential competitors that circumvent, can't or won't spend what it takes to achieve approval?
As Michael pointed out, all private sector industries use government regulation to stifle and eliminate competition. US drug enforcement agencies have no competition, they're the enforcement arm of that particular regulation (drugs) and in that instance support big pharma's monopolys at public expense.
__________________
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
~H.L. Mencken~
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Feb 22nd 2010, 02:10 PM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
That's what I meant before. If pharma lobbyists went for removing the entire set of safety regulations then they'd be on equal footings with the non-regulated drug-"suppliers", which they could then crush competitionwise. Sure, non-regulated drug-"suppliers" can still skew competition by circumventing trade and worker regulations, as can fashion industry pirates, but it's not a regulation on the product.
That wouldn't work at all since big Pharma would still be open to civil law suits for its products (and wouldn't benefit from regulatory laws designed to thwart them).

This is asymetrical since the illegal drug producers can't be sued because they don't provide a nice handy incorporated body to sue.

Bottom line is that Big Pharma gains way too many benefits from government regulatory rules and would lose too much without them. Besides which, illegal drug cartel types tend to fight dirty when pressed hard. I don't think Big Pharma has the balls to deal with that kind of 'we'll kill your family' type competition.
__________________
Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 07:10 AM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 627
Wink Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
That wouldn't work at all since big Pharma would still be open to civil law suits for its products (and wouldn't benefit from regulatory laws designed to thwart them).

This is asymetrical since the illegal drug producers can't be sued because they don't provide a nice handy incorporated body to sue.

Bottom line is that Big Pharma gains way too many benefits from government regulatory rules and would lose too much without them. Besides which, illegal drug cartel types tend to fight dirty when pressed hard. I don't think Big Pharma has the balls to deal with that kind of 'we'll kill your family' type competition.
Which is why "Big Pharma" should lobby for complete liberalization so that illegal drug cartel types become legal drug cartel types. No more approval regulations, no more criminal action on account of production and distribution, no more "we'll kill your family" type competition, and no more "Big Pharma" 'monopoly' on civil law suits.
__________________
Recogito ergo est
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:00 AM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
Which is why "Big Pharma" should lobby for complete liberalization so that illegal drug cartel types become legal drug cartel types. No more approval regulations, no more criminal action on account of production and distribution, no more "we'll kill your family" type competition, and no more "Big Pharma" 'monopoly' on civil law suits.
But then it becomes a straight market competition between Prosac and Pot. Which do you think would win in the marketplace? Big Pharma loses all its advantages and would have to actually compete in a market they don't control.

I think Big Pharma is massively profitable the way they are and they'd be nuts to rock their golden boat (which is why Big Pharma NEVER rocks the boat of public policy).
__________________
Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:14 AM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
World Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 627
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
But then it becomes a straight market competition between Prosac and Pot. Which do you think would win in the marketplace?
Whoever has the means of production. Which means "Big Pharma".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I think Big Pharma is massively profitable the way they are and they'd be nuts to rock their golden boat (which is why Big Pharma NEVER rocks the boat of public policy).
And I'd be nuts to disagree with this.

But it's way too cheap and Rand'ish to say that something is illegal because an industry doesn't like the competition.
__________________
Recogito ergo est
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:25 AM
Michael's Avatar
Michael Michael is offline
Administrator
Herder of Cats
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 14,835
Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
Whoever has the means of production. Which means "Big Pharma".
You are kidding right?

There is no competetion on this particular metric. The distributed character of pot growing is massively larger in volume/value than pharmaceuticals.

Big Pharma also spends about 25% of revenue on advertising and kickbacks to doctors that are necessary in order to push their present level of sales.

Pot dealers spend roughly 0% on advertising and achieve present levels of sales despite the fact that governments spend billions on law enforcement trying to prevent it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
And I'd be nuts to disagree with this.

But it's way too cheap and Rand'ish to say that something is illegal because an industry doesn't like the competition.
But what if it is true?

But Big Pharma isn't the culprit. Pot is illegal because of the oil industry's aggressive campaign to get it made illegal in the 1920s. They feared that hemp could be used to make ethanol and that would prevent US farmers from becoming addicted to gasoline-power.
__________________
Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008 - 2017, DiscussionWorldForum.com