K2 Synthetic Marijuana

[Multiplum]

Originally Posted by Michael

Very interesting. I wonder how it is illegal in Europe?

Norway: "What, people are getting comfortably high off something?"

*bans substance*

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Multiplum

Norway: "What, people are getting comfortably high off something?"

*bans substance*

Yes, the authoritarian character of American government is annoying, but hardly to compare to the authoritarian character that is the foundation of European governance.

At least people in America can fight against the government. That's mostly impossible in Europe and consists of begging for mercy (which is sometimes granted). My point is that citizens cannot force a European government to back down on a law (as can be sometimes done in USA and Canada with constitutional challenges).

[Americano]

Originally Posted by Michael

Yes, the authoritarian character of American government is annoying, but hardly to compare to the authoritarian character that is the foundation of European governance.

At least people in America can fight against the government. That's mostly impossible in Europe and consists of begging for mercy (which is sometimes granted). My point is that citizens cannot force a European government to back down on a law (as can be sometimes done in USA and Canada with constitutional challenges).

The recent UK example of immediately sacking their government drug expert for him using ten years of research to declare marijuana less dangerous than alcohol comes to mind.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Americano

The recent UK example of immediately sacking their government drug expert for him using ten years of research to declare marijuana less dangerous than alcohol comes to mind.

Yes exactly.

In Canada or USA, the government would be facing a nasty lawsuit for 'wrongful dismissal'.

[SMadsen]

Originally Posted by Americano

Unfortunately its composed of natural ingredients. Big pharma lobbyists move quickly to eliminate that sort of potential competition for their painkillers.

Why don't big pharma lobbyists lobby for removing the entire set of safety regulations that are involved in drug approval instead of lobbying for drug prohibition? Being big pharma it would take no effort to crush all competition once all regulations were done away with.

[Americano]

Originally Posted by SMadsen

Why don't big pharma lobbyists lobby for removing the entire set of safety regulations that are involved in drug approval instead of lobbying for drug prohibition? Being big pharma it would take no effort to crush all competition once all regulations were done away with.

From any corporate viewpoint government regulation/enforcement is far less expensive and more effective in crushing smaller competition to control markets than merely offering product based on claimed merits.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by SMadsen

Why don't big pharma lobbyists lobby for removing the entire set of safety regulations that are involved in drug approval instead of lobbying for drug prohibition? Being big pharma it would take no effort to crush all competition once all regulations were done away with.

Because the lawsuits for defective products would likely put big Pharma away for good.

Do you realize how many billions they pay out annually already - even with strong regulatory monitoring for safety?

No, Big Pharma accepts the regulations because they are cheaper than a blockbuster class-action suit which could wipe out a company entirely.

Indeed, wiping out regulations opens the market up to the generic drug suppliers and that would also wipe out Big Pharma' fat profits that are 100% dependent upon regulatory control over the marketplace.

Big Pharma doesn't like free markets at all. I think they have far more to loose than gain from eliminating all regulations.

[Multiplum]

Originally Posted by Michael

Yes, the authoritarian character of American government is annoying, but hardly to compare to the authoritarian character that is the foundation of European governance.

At least people in America can fight against the government. That's mostly impossible in Europe and consists of begging for mercy (which is sometimes granted). My point is that citizens cannot force a European government to back down on a law (as can be sometimes done in USA and Canada with constitutional challenges).

Maybe, but I think the drug laws we have are influenced by the American approach. Portugal pretty much disposed of the old ones, and decided they didn't work. So to say that Europe is less flexible is a fairly harsh generalization. It's certainly true for my country, but the fact is that most people still live by the idea that alcohol is alcohol, drugs are drugs, and drugs are bad. I suggest you look up Portugal's drug policies, I believe Time had an article on it. Most countries seem to prefer ignoring this success story. It's the same here, hardly any political parties dare touch the issue of drugs at all. There's not enough public interest anyway, although it is steadily rising from what I can tell. Being a tiny country, we are easily influenced by neighboring and more powerful western countries. Look at all the shit the dutch get for the drug tourism.

I'm not that sure if the little man stands a better chance in the US. At least I would be surprised if it's that black and white.For some/a lot of issues, certainly, but for some again - perhaps not. Being a small democratic nation has its perks, and I think that despite the obsession with rules and regulations (not always a bad thing, by the way) - my social liberties at least feel safe and sound. I'm pretty sure political movements change laws, considering that politicians are whores for votes. A populist movement can most certainly get shit done.

[Americano]

Originally Posted by Multiplum

Maybe, but I think the drug laws we have are influenced by the American approach. Portugal pretty much disposed of the old ones, and decided they didn't work. So to say that Europe is less flexible is a fairly harsh generalization. It's certainly true for my country, but the fact is that most people still live by the idea that alcohol is alcohol, drugs are drugs, and drugs are bad. I suggest you look up Portugal's drug policies, I believe Time had an article on it. Most countries seem to prefer ignoring this success story. It's the same here, hardly any political parties dare touch the issue of drugs at all. There's not enough public interest anyway, although it is steadily rising from what I can tell. Being a tiny country, we are easily influenced by neighboring and more powerful western countries. Look at all the shit the dutch get for the drug tourism.

Spain, while not reforming drug laws, has taken the stance of ignoring marijuana unless being imported in large quantities. That 'look the other way' LE attitude includes personal cultivation. That simply won't happen in the US because of state and local LE dependency on federal funding to operate their departments.

I'm not that sure if the little man stands a better chance in the US. At least I would be surprised if it's that black and white.For some/a lot of issues, certainly, but for some again - perhaps not. Being a small democratic nation has its perks, and I think that despite the obsession with rules and regulations (not always a bad thing, by the way) - my social liberties at least feel safe and sound. I'm pretty sure political movements change laws, considering that politicians are whores for votes. A populist movement can most certainly get shit done.

[Multiplum]

Originally Posted by Americano

Spain, while not reforming drug laws, has taken the stance of ignoring marijuana unless being imported in large quantities. That 'look the other way' LE attitude includes personal cultivation. That simply won't happen in the US because of state and local LE dependency on federal funding to operate their departments.

This is normal practice in many western European countries by now. Slow progression. This kind of leniency, along with widespread use and no obvious dangers to it, further promotes the /care attitude. In Portugal, I believe drug use is tolerated, period. People were smoking pot with the police walking past them, at least, and coke was absolutely everywhere.