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  #31  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:32 AM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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You are kidding right?

There is no competetion on this particular metric. The distributed character of pot growing is massively larger in volume/value than pharmaceuticals.

Big Pharma also spends about 25% of revenue on advertising and kickbacks to doctors that are necessary in order to push their present level of sales.

Pot dealers spend roughly 0% on advertising and achieve present levels of sales despite the fact that governments spend billions on law enforcement trying to prevent it.
No, I'm not kidding. Removing regulations on pot means that "Big Pharma" is free to compete on pot; not with a product produced under safety regulations such as Prozac but with an unregulated product such as .. pot!
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  #32  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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No, I'm not kidding. Removing regulations on pot means that "Big Pharma" is free to compete on pot; not with a product produced under safety regulations such as Prozac but with an unregulated product such as .. pot!
Big pharma has made no attempt to enter the unregulated US pot market, medical marijuana now being legal in 14 states.
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  #33  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 11:40 AM
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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Big pharma has made no attempt to enter the unregulated US pot market, medical marijuana now being legal in 14 states.
Well, USA has made no attempt to unregulate it (illegal is the complete opposite of unregulated).

Anyhow, it's a hypothetical situation.
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  #34  
Old Feb 23rd 2010, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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Well, USA has made no attempt to unregulate it (illegal is the complete opposite of unregulated).

Anyhow, it's a hypothetical situation.
Not hypothetical, the medical marijuana market being highly regulated, complete with physician required prescriptions, state issued licensing and draconian law enforcement. Patients may legally transfer their right to grow plants for self-medication to another party, a perfect scenario for big pharma.

The current public image (war on drugs with unbelievably high corruption) and an expanded legal market are all that's holding them back.

The total US marijuana market for domestically grown product, dependent on one's sources, is currently estimated at $70-100billion. That's without imports, estimated to be 50% of total market sales.
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  #35  
Old Feb 25th 2010, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

Well I just learned that a bill is working it's way through my state's government to make both K2 and Salvia illegal.
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  #36  
Old Feb 25th 2010, 03:03 PM
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Well I just learned that a bill is working it's way through my state's government to make both K2 and Salvia illegal.
Next step is requesting additional federal funding for local enforcement purposes.
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  #37  
Old Mar 3rd 2010, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
No, I'm not kidding. Removing regulations on pot means that "Big Pharma" is free to compete on pot; not with a product produced under safety regulations such as Prozac but with an unregulated product such as .. pot!
Well that's an entirely different point!

That type of strategy would bring the whole game full circle back to pure capitalism and actual free market competition - which is exactly the one thing that modern corporations fear and try hardest to avoid. On that basis, I'd say the executives and shareholders would never approve the plan. That's just way too scary and risky.

Besides which, the formerly illegal suppliers just might decide to remain 'incognito' since that's a functioning business model for them and that would be asymetrical because the corporation needs formal legal existence to function. And if it has a formal address, it can be sued.

Not to mention the fact that it is not realistic to imagine going from a 'war on drugs' to 'wide open free market' systemic conversion. I'd expect any legalization/decriminalization to be gradual and measured, with barriers against concentrated large-scale suppliers.

Unless the state enforcement apparatus starts to weaken, then all bets are off.
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  #38  
Old Mar 3rd 2010, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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Maybe, but I think the drug laws we have are influenced by the American approach. Portugal pretty much disposed of the old ones, and decided they didn't work. So to say that Europe is less flexible is a fairly harsh generalization. It's certainly true for my country, but the fact is that most people still live by the idea that alcohol is alcohol, drugs are drugs, and drugs are bad. I suggest you look up Portugal's drug policies, I believe Time had an article on it. Most countries seem to prefer ignoring this success story. It's the same here, hardly any political parties dare touch the issue of drugs at all. There's not enough public interest anyway, although it is steadily rising from what I can tell. Being a tiny country, we are easily influenced by neighboring and more powerful western countries. Look at all the shit the dutch get for the drug tourism.
Yes, Europe provides a wonderful diversity of drug policies, no doubt of that. I definitely retract my statement in this respect - it was a foolish one.

The Dutch have certainly provided some excellent data for the rest of us.

And yes, I've been following some of the 'surprising' political developments in Spain and Portugal over the last half dozen years, though your point about Portugal's drug laws is new to me - I'll check that out.

Indeed, this is one of the best features of 'federalism' - the way smaller states can experiment with policies that can be adopted at the federal level if they prove successful (that's the theory anyway!).

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I'm not that sure if the little man stands a better chance in the US. At least I would be surprised if it's that black and white.For some/a lot of issues, certainly, but for some again - perhaps not. Being a small democratic nation has its perks, and I think that despite the obsession with rules and regulations (not always a bad thing, by the way) - my social liberties at least feel safe and sound. I'm pretty sure political movements change laws, considering that politicians are whores for votes. A populist movement can most certainly get shit done.
Yes, this is true.

And I agree that the 'little man' isn't going to win anywhere anytime. My point is more about the effect that a bunch of 'little men' can have when they leverage the courts. This is a powerful weapon in Canada and USA because of the nature of constitutionalism and the common law tradition. Put those two together and theoretically, the 'little man' is legally a very powerful force that can legally compel the government to surrender and even pay damages and restitution. I'm not aware of any European legal system that functions in this same way, though of course, there are many European avenues available to challenge or appeal laws certainly, but these function in a different way that isn't quite as powerful weapons if the state is at all determined in opposition.

Though, in all practicality, this weapon is rarely available to individuals anyway - one needs a group cause to get the machinery working on the scale necessary to make it happen. But it can and does work. Governments can (sometimes) be legally forced to do one's bidding - this is a powerful theoretical principle that is part of the idea of liberty derived from the Magna Carta.
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  #39  
Old Mar 4th 2010, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

The move to make it illegal unanimously passed the state senate and is now going to be taken up by the house. No surprise there.
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  #40  
Old Mar 4th 2010, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: K2 Synthetic Marijuana

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The move to make it illegal unanimously passed the state senate and is now going to be taken up by the house. No surprise there.
Prohibition being a far faster legislative process than anything that directly benefits the populace with a measurable value like public health care? Build those prisons, expand that LE apparatus and make sure the state can support more criminal defense lawyers, all with an existing tax base.

A few states take those measures, then pressure the feds to classify it as illegal and suddenly the War on Drugs expands yet again to contain this new threat to Real Americans.

Sorry, I'm a little cynical as a nearby city with a population of 24k just had a 18% voter turnout for their city council election. That was to replace five of the seven council people who were so disliked by the good old boys that they were drummed out in a recall election last year.

In US political corruption, size doesn't matter.
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