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Crusader Kings II Do you like to play Crusader Kings? Looking for help, tips or strategies?

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Old Nov 11th 2014, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: How do you attack an elective monarchy?

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Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
So I'm trying out a very very small modification to the game that I think might make the whole elective monarchy thing a lot easier. Specifically the problem of the Holy Roman Empire.

As I see it the problem is this: currently elective succession gives all vassals a +20 opinion modifier (presumably because they have a role in succession). The unintended consequence of this action is that elective monarchies are incredibly strong. The HRE is able to create an incredibly powerful and centralized state simply because all the vassals are predisposed to liking the emperor. This is both historically inaccurate and quite annoying.

So I simply changed this opinion modifier from +20 to -20. I justify this historically because the Holy Roman Empire was always being torn apart by its vassals. The game should reflect this fact. I'm hoping this change will create more factions and make it harder for the HRE to increase crown authority

I'll report back what my findings are.
So update:

I have done two test games to to see what the effects are -

First game was a short one (only about 40 years) as a minor duke in the Byzantine Empire. I saw something that I have never seen before in the HRE - a successful independence movement. Second game was a little longer (around 90 years). I picked the Count of aargau. Again, I saw successful independence movements and the HRE lost multiple wars with France.

some quick observations:
-20 is actually not all that much in terms of relationship penalty. One could probably stretch it to -30.

With the -20 hit, the most disloyal vassals were the Italian nobles. it seemed as if the Emperor was engaged in near constant war in Northern Italy. I think this accurately reflects the problems emperors had in Italy.

Crown Authority still moved up at a pretty regular pace.

Factions didn't pop up at any more noticeable a rate than before. I was hoping crown authority would be kept in check by successful factions demanding a lower crown authority. However, maybe I need to play longer...
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  #12  
Old Nov 11th 2014, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: How do you attack an elective monarchy?

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
Are there no guillotines in this game to deal with monarchies?
Oh, yes, wrong era, alas.
Indeed, wrong era. But they do have catapults and trebuchets to kick them out of their castles!
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  #13  
Old Nov 11th 2014, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: How do you attack an elective monarchy?

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Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
So update:

I have done two test games to to see what the effects are -

First game was a short one (only about 40 years) as a minor duke in the Byzantine Empire. I saw something that I have never seen before in the HRE - a successful independence movement. Second game was a little longer (around 90 years). I picked the Count of aargau. Again, I saw successful independence movements and the HRE lost multiple wars with France.

some quick observations:
-20 is actually not all that much in terms of relationship penalty. One could probably stretch it to -30.

With the -20 hit, the most disloyal vassals were the Italian nobles. it seemed as if the Emperor was engaged in near constant war in Northern Italy. I think this accurately reflects the problems emperors had in Italy.

Crown Authority still moved up at a pretty regular pace.

Factions didn't pop up at any more noticeable a rate than before. I was hoping crown authority would be kept in check by successful factions demanding a lower crown authority. However, maybe I need to play longer...
I've played the Count of Aargau a few times so I'm familiar with that game start. And I've certainly seen a strong independence movement coming out of Italy - usually lead by the famous Matilda of Tuscany. They sometimes do succeed, but only if several other rebellions pop up at the same time. They are usually the only successful independence rebellions I see in the HRE - and it is always within the first 10 years (1066 game start).

But either way, you are entirely correct that Italy should pose an ongoing big problem for the HRE as that was totally historical. And having the HRE not win every war against France would be a good thing from a historical perspective as well.

In almost every game I've played, 100 years in, France ends up looking like medieval Germany with ink-blot pattern of muti-colored principalities, while the HRE is a behemoth of stability. When playing England, it is quite boring and unrealistic to face such an inherently weak France.

I'll make the same change and test it as well.
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