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  #41  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 04:56 PM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Why is ethics the end?

Why isn't, say, grace the end?
Not the end but an end. This use of 'end' means goal or purpose as opposed to a 'means'

I am not denying that grace might also be an end
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  #42  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

Kingdaddy ?
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  #43  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Originally Posted by voiceoftheshires View Post
No, it is a claim not a tautology; a tautological expression might be something like, Ethics is an end or it is not
My apologies, but it seems to me that the only definition you have provided for what "the Ethical" is was when you stated that"The proper end of that search [for value] is the ethical but it is exceeding hard".

If it is defined as "the proper end", then it seems tautological to them claim that "the ethical is exactly an end in and of itself." Of course it is. You defined it that way.

Perhaps you could provide a more substantial definition of what you mean by "the Ethical."

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Making a tool is part of our form of life, just as certain animals make tools, making something useless like art is a perversion of that ability
Why is art useless?

Yet again, I point to art's ability to beautify (and highlight existing beauty), to enlighten, to inspire, and to bring pleasure.
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  #44  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Kingdaddy ?
No, it can't be. This fellow is too fluent with proper English. We'd need more grammatical and spelling errors for Kingdaddy, though I admit, the arguments do have certain similarities.

For those who have no clue what we're talking about, Kingdaddy is the name of a rather entertaining poster at another forum some few years ago.
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  #45  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Why is ethics the end?

Why isn't, say, grace the end?
Isn't "grace" an "end" for morality?

Ethics are secular. When religion is involved (i.e. "grace") then we are talking about morality, not ethics.
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  #46  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Isn't "grace" an "end" for morality?

Ethics are secular. When religion is involved (i.e. "grace") then we are talking about morality, not ethics.
Ethics can be religious or secular, but that's neither here nor there.

I get the impression that Voices is entering this discussion from a distinctly non-secular perspective.
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  #47  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Ethics can be religious or secular, but that's neither here nor there.
I'd disagree with that one. I'd like to see Non Sequitur's take on it.

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I get the impression that Voices is entering this discussion from a distinctly non-secular perspective.
Without a doubt. Which is why a switch of terms to "morality" would be appropriate since that's where this is going.
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  #48  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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I'd disagree with that one. I'd like to see Non Sequitur's take on it.
Along with literally thousands of academics, books, traditions, schools of theology, etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ethics

For example...
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  #49  
Old Jan 6th 2014, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Yes, art is usually a deliberate creation - except when it is not.
Sorry, I'm trying to catch up after the holiday snooze I took (which, holyshit, was a post-blitz here).

This post caught my eye, Michael. I haven't finished the thread yet, so I may just have missed where this is expounded upon (again, holy moly, there's a lot of new content!), but I'd like know more about this.

When is art not deliberately created?

If we argue that art can be created without intent, then we could argue that the entire human experience is art. Our lives are an act of art.

When do we draw the line?
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  #50  
Old Jan 7th 2014, 03:59 AM
voiceoftheshires voiceoftheshires is offline
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Default Re: Nature of art

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Why is art useless?

Yet again, I point to art's ability to beautify (and highlight existing beauty), to enlighten, to inspire, and to bring pleasure.
Except art does not create beauty, it makes a poor, bloodless rendition of the beauty of nature
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