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  #21  
Old Aug 13th 2009, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: The Aghanistan War

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News from Afghanistan is not good and the future looks bleak. Obama's new general there seems to want an additional 45,000 troops, and the US forces are undertaking two big local problems that have been massive failures in the USA.

That is to say, the US military in Afghanistan is now trying to 'reform' the prison system in Afghanistan (that seems like a joke given that the US has one of the worst prison problems on the planet) and is going to bring the War on Drugs to Afghanistan (probably because it was so successful at home).

I didn't think it would be possible, but Obama has managed to make Afghanistan look much worse than Bush made it.

I'm not fucking impressed with Obama on foreign policy at all. He seems to be in way over his head and making stupid decisions that have already been proven failures. He should stick to Town Halls on healthcare issues. He ain't do anyone any favors in Afghanistan.
US presence in Afghanistan is beginning to resemble Vietnam, Chapter 2.
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  #22  
Old Aug 13th 2009, 11:13 AM
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US presence in Afghanistan is beginning to resemble Vietnam, Chapter 2.
Yes, its only a matter of time before the body-count metrics start getting reported.
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  #23  
Old Aug 15th 2009, 06:25 AM
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I'm not all that clear on the strategic military importance of Afghanistan. I know it's the geocentric point in the region of Asia and the Middle East and I understand we'd probably like to have Iran surrounded by friendly faces. I also know about the poppy industry. I'm guessing there is a whole lot of natrual resources in the immediate surrounding area. Of course, the face we put on occupying Afghanistan is to rout out the bad Taliban guys and of course find the bad al-Qaeda guys, but I'm pretty sure all of that is for public consumption more than anything else.

Would anyone care to enlighten me?
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  #24  
Old Aug 15th 2009, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: The Aghanistan War

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I'm not all that clear on the strategic military importance of Afghanistan. I know it's the geocentric point in the region of Asia and the Middle East and I understand we'd probably like to have Iran surrounded by friendly faces. I also know about the poppy industry. I'm guessing there is a whole lot of natrual resources in the immediate surrounding area. Of course, the face we put on occupying Afghanistan is to rout out the bad Taliban guys and of course find the bad al-Qaeda guys, but I'm pretty sure all of that is for public consumption more than anything else.

Would anyone care to enlighten me?
I love questions like this!

Dateline: September 2001 - just a week before 9/11 - guess who G.W.Bush was hosting for a visit at the White House? Taliban officials!

The Central Asia region (Kazakistan and Ubekistan) has LOTS of natural gas resources and the ONLY way this product can be exported out of these regions is via Russian controled pipelines.

It has been an obsession of the US Government for a long time to build a natural gas pipeline across Afganistan and then underneath the Caspian Sea and then through Georgia to the Black Sea in order to bring this natural gas to western consumers (mostly Europe).

Thus, the US government has been intimately involved in all kinds of 'arrangements' in this region trying to secure the route and begin construction.

This also partially explains how the US has gotten so tight with Georgia as well as they are just as much a key portion of the route as Afghanistan is.

It is also to be noted that the Central Asian region is a geographic place that the US has never had much power and influence, but with the collapse of the USSR in 1989, the US military moved very quick to get its tentacles into the region - seeking to establish regional hegemony power there. The US is still playing Cold War power games. The end of the Cold War changes NOTHING.

The second reason that Afghanistan is of critical strategic importance is due to the weakness of Pakistan. The Taliban are originally a Pakistani group. They are seeking to take over Afghanistan - if they succeed, they will immediately use that as a powerbase to try to take over Pakistan next. Pakistan has nukes and this makes the issue of critical importance. Pakistan has pently enough problems without the Taliban controlling Afghanistan and seeking to takeover Pakistan.

So that's why Afghanistan is important and that's why US forces are in Afghanistan to stay - I'll say permanently.
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  #25  
Old Aug 16th 2009, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: The Aghanistan War

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I love questions like this!

Dateline: September 2001 - just a week before 9/11 - guess who G.W.Bush was hosting for a visit at the White House? Taliban officials!

The Central Asia region (Kazakistan and Ubekistan) has LOTS of natural gas resources and the ONLY way this product can be exported out of these regions is via Russian controled pipelines.

It has been an obsession of the US Government for a long time to build a natural gas pipeline across Afganistan and then underneath the Caspian Sea and then through Georgia to the Black Sea in order to bring this natural gas to western consumers (mostly Europe).

Thus, the US government has been intimately involved in all kinds of 'arrangements' in this region trying to secure the route and begin construction.

This also partially explains how the US has gotten so tight with Georgia as well as they are just as much a key portion of the route as Afghanistan is.

It is also to be noted that the Central Asian region is a geographic place that the US has never had much power and influence, but with the collapse of the USSR in 1989, the US military moved very quick to get its tentacles into the region - seeking to establish regional hegemony power there. The US is still playing Cold War power games. The end of the Cold War changes NOTHING.

The second reason that Afghanistan is of critical strategic importance is due to the weakness of Pakistan. The Taliban are originally a Pakistani group. They are seeking to take over Afghanistan - if they succeed, they will immediately use that as a powerbase to try to take over Pakistan next. Pakistan has nukes and this makes the issue of critical importance. Pakistan has pently enough problems without the Taliban controlling Afghanistan and seeking to takeover Pakistan.

So that's why Afghanistan is important and that's why US forces are in Afghanistan to stay - I'll say permanently.

Thanks, Michael. All of it makes perfect sense in an American mindset kind of way. Of course natural resources had to play a big role.

But, what happened in Afghanistan with the Taliban? I thought at one point we had driven the Taliban out of power there. Wasn't that the reason we went into Afghanistan in the first place? Well, other than trying to find bin Laden?
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  #26  
Old Aug 16th 2009, 08:37 AM
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Thanks, Michael. All of it makes perfect sense in an American mindset kind of way. Of course natural resources had to play a big role.

But, what happened in Afghanistan with the Taliban? I thought at one point we had driven the Taliban out of power there. Wasn't that the reason we went into Afghanistan in the first place? Well, other than trying to find bin Laden?
Yes, US and NATO forces drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan back in 2002.

Unfortunately, the US pulled out their forces too quickly in order to prepare for the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The US also made a point of installing their own man in Kabul (Karzai) who of course has been brutally corrupt and totally incapable of ruling - but he does have lots of connections with the US oil/gas industry and was also known as a 'longtime friend of the Bush family'.

The upside of that is that Taliban returned to Afghanistan just as quickly as they were booted out. Apparently the Karzai government was so corrupt and its government style bordering on anarchism, the Afghan people prefered to deal with the Taliban as they do offer security. Of course the American-puppet Karzai is still ruling in Kabul (even it is deteriorating), protected by NATO troops.

One big fucking mess is what it is.
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  #27  
Old Aug 16th 2009, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: The Aghanistan War

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Yes, US and NATO forces drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan back in 2002.

Unfortunately, the US pulled out their forces too quickly in order to prepare for the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The US also made a point of installing their own man in Kabul (Karzai) who of course has been brutally corrupt and totally incapable of ruling - but he does have lots of connections with the US oil/gas industry and was also known as a 'longtime friend of the Bush family'.

The upside of that is that Taliban returned to Afghanistan just as quickly as they were booted out. Apparently the Karzai government was so corrupt and its government style bordering on anarchism, the Afghan people prefered to deal with the Taliban as they do offer security. Of course the American-puppet Karzai is still ruling in Kabul (even it is deteriorating), protected by NATO troops.

One big fucking mess is what it is.
With US federal tax revenues down 18%, a very unaffordable big fucking mess. As long as the MIC continues keeping politically sensitive US casualties low the dumb as a rock general public will continue feeding on the 'keeping America safe' rationalization.
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  #28  
Old Aug 17th 2009, 05:45 AM
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A big fucking mess indeed. I'm reading there will be a presidential election on August 20th. Any chance that a) Karzai will be replaced? or b) it will make one bit of difference if he is or not?
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  #29  
Old Aug 17th 2009, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: The Aghanistan War

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A big fucking mess indeed. I'm reading there will be a presidential election on August 20th. Any chance that a) Karzai will be replaced? or b) it will make one bit of difference if he is or not?
Karzai has been catering to the conservative extremists here lately, so I'm guessing he's viewed as progressive there. How's that for fucked up?
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  #30  
Old Aug 17th 2009, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: The Aghanistan War

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Karzai has been catering to the conservative extremists here lately, so I'm guessing he's viewed as progressive there. How's that for fucked up?
Obviously, Karzai is campaigning amongst his key constituents...

As I noted above, Karzai's political power base is the US Republican party.

He doesn't appear to have his own power base in Afghanistan. Classic American parachute dude - totally dependent upon the US for his political position.
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