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  #51  
Old Feb 17th 2014, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
I'm skeptical about that. Can you demonstrate that pain makres someone irrational?
I'd say that sufficient pain makes people myopic (only goal being to end the pain). If someone catches fire at the top of a tall building, that person is likely to run around in a haze of panic and agony because figuring out some way to stop the pain trumps anything -- even not falling off the building.

In other words, something that removes ability to prioritize leads to locally maximizing decisions that may not be rational in the larger scheme of things. It's rational not to want to be on fire, but it's not rational to attempt to achieve that by sprinting off of the edge of a tall building.

So, I think you could demonstrate, at the very least, that someone in a lot of pain is likely to have their sense of priority dramatically affected by their pain.
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  #52  
Old Feb 17th 2014, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
I'd say that sufficient pain makes people myopic (only goal being to end the pain). If someone catches fire at the top of a tall building, that person is likely to run around in a haze of panic and agony because figuring out some way to stop the pain trumps anything -- even not falling off the building.

In other words, something that removes ability to prioritize leads to locally maximizing decisions that may not be rational in the larger scheme of things. It's rational not to want to be on fire, but it's not rational to attempt to achieve that by sprinting off of the edge of a tall building.

So, I think you could demonstrate, at the very least, that someone in a lot of pain is likely to have their sense of priority dramatically affected by their pain.
This is ONLY for terminal ill individuals.

I don't see "I am going to die tomorrow but I am in such great pain, I would rather die today." as being particularly irrational.
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  #53  
Old Feb 17th 2014, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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This is ONLY for terminal ill individuals.

I don't see "I am going to die tomorrow but I am in such great pain, I would rather die today." as being particularly irrational.
I'm just talking in general about the concept that extreme pain and rational thinking may be mutually exclusive.
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  #54  
Old Feb 17th 2014, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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I'm just talking in general about the concept that extreme pain and rational thinking may be mutually exclusive.
The problem for me is you can say that pain can affect rational, but I'm extremely skeptical of saying that someone in severe pain cannot be rational.
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  #55  
Old Feb 17th 2014, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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I've read that one too. Have you noticed the last paragraph?

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But the idea of euthanasia for children is considered morally repugnant in many European countries, driven in part by memories of the Nazis, who killed thousands of children they had deemed to be mentally and physically impaired.


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Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
At one point is does raise a sticky issue, not just with regard to children but anyone: The law requires that one both be experiencing "constant and unbearable suffering" and have "capacity of discernment". Some might argue that those two requirements are mutually exclusive.

I.E. No one who is experiencing unbearable pain is thinking clearly and rationally about their situation.
I wouldn't go as far as mutually exclusive but it's nevertheless probably one of the reasons there are (going to be) so few cases.
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  #56  
Old Feb 17th 2014, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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The problem for me is you can say that pain can affect rational, but I'm extremely skeptical of saying that someone in severe pain cannot be rational.
I would certainly back away from that absolute. It's more that I think of pain as a handicap to rationality, like, say hunger or thirst. If you're extremely thirsty, you're going to be a lot more tempted to drink the sea water than if you aren't extremely thirsty, but in both cases, drinking the sea water is irrational.
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  #57  
Old Sep 18th 2016, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

This discussion was in February 2014. Only now in September 2016 we've had the first case where this was actually used. There isn't and won't be any details about the case other than it involved a 17-year old.
One case in two and a half years on a population of 11 million makes it clear that no floodgates have been opened and that this is and will remain a last resort in extreme circumstances.
And to set Michael's mind at peace, no laws have since been instituted or are being considered which would erode the statute of 'minor' outside of this. So no slippery slope there either.
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  #58  
Old Sep 19th 2016, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia for children

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This discussion was in February 2014. Only now in September 2016 we've had the first case where this was actually used. There isn't and won't be any details about the case other than it involved a 17-year old.
One case in two and a half years on a population of 11 million makes it clear that no floodgates have been opened and that this is and will remain a last resort in extreme circumstances.
And to set Michael's mind at peace, no laws have since been instituted or are being considered which would erode the statute of 'minor' outside of this. So no slippery slope there either.
Give it time. Every law that has ever been created has been abused and manipulated for other purposes by law enforcement agencies and/or government themselves - and blessed by the courts.

Remember that income tax was introduced as temporary measure during WW1. Or that the provisions of the US Patriot Act has never been used against terrorists even once - but the Patriot Act has been invoked well over 1000 times in court cases (often against peaceful political or environmental protesters - these seem to be the favorite targets for using the US Patriot Act).
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