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  #11  
Old Feb 17th 2015, 11:18 PM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

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Originally Posted by Dominick View Post
This isn't about countries, it's about the self-proclaimed financial elite vs. every one else. Those who benefited from the Greek 'debt', i.e. the Greek oligarchs, are the very same type of people who hold the offshore accounts. It's ordinary people who pay for this massive global theft. The taxpayers anywhere don't have to contribute a thing, the offshore account holders do, whatever their nationality.
Yes, I'm being a little inconsistent here, on the one hand saying that Greece should go bankrupt, and on the other pitying the French and Swiss taxpayers (But not the IMF) who hold most of the Greek debt.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said that "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." I've never agreed with that, but I'll be inconsistent and hang my hat on it anyway.
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  #12  
Old Apr 16th 2015, 04:34 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

Greece is still kicking the can and "time is running out," although that phrase seems to have taken on a new meaning, since it is supposed to run out every week or so.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32326547
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  #13  
Old Apr 17th 2015, 12:31 PM
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Dominick Dominick is offline
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

Meanwhile:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...in-Madrid.html

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Rato had reportedly become the focus of money-laundering and fraud accusations regarding his personal wealth

Rodrigo Rato, a former managing director of the IMF and top-level minister in the governments of Prime Minister José María Aznar, was arrested in Madrid on Thursday after the police and customs officials carried out a search of his home.

Rato, who was already implicated in a judicial investigation into his stewardship of Bankia before the Spanish lender had to be bailed out to the tune of €22 billion (£16bn), had reportedly become the focus of money-laundering and fraud accusations regarding his personal wealth.
The world of financial fraud is no different from that of drugs or illegal guns. The small timers are branded criminals and persecuted by the establishment while the big timers actually are the establishment.
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  #14  
Old Apr 20th 2015, 04:22 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

90% of Greek debt relief goes to the rich and powerful?

http://jubileedebt.org.uk/press-rele...ckless-lenders
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  #15  
Old Apr 21st 2015, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

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90% of Greek debt relief goes to the rich and powerful?
Of course. That's what it's for.
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  #16  
Old Jun 15th 2015, 04:50 AM
Tom Palven Tom Palven is offline
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

Is the Greek economy can at the end of the road?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0OS0E020150615

I'm not going to hold my breath.
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  #17  
Old Jun 15th 2015, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

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Is the Greek economy can at the end of the road?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0OS0E020150615

I'm not going to hold my breath.
The Greek economy was destroyed by the financial shenanigans. Not the other way around. This is happening everywhere they have 'austerity' albeit slower than in Greece.
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  #18  
Old Jun 17th 2015, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

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The Greek economy was destroyed by the financial shenanigans. Not the other way around. This is happening everywhere they have 'austerity' albeit slower than in Greece.
I'll admit there is certainly some truth in this, but it begs the question, which particular financial shenanigans are the real problem?

We have on the one hand several decades of the Greek government and voters demanding a level of public services and public spending far beyond the ability of the Greek economy to pay for.

On the other hand, we have several years of international political and financial shenanigans that have triggered the particular present crisis and 'austerity' policies.

Is one set of financial shenanigans to blame while the other is innocent? Are they both guilty? Or both innocent?
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  #19  
Old Jun 20th 2015, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

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I'll admit there is certainly some truth in this, but it begs the question, which particular financial shenanigans are the real problem?
Hypertrading, commodities speculation, currency speculation, obscurantist derivatives, off-shore tax evasion, you name it. This destroys economies and governments and sucks truly gargantuan amounts out of the normal working of society. Compared to the very conservative estimate of $32 trillion, Greece's debt is less than small change. Heck, it covers the entire public debt of the USA and the Eurozone combined !!
It's like emptying someone's bank accounts, seizing all their assets and then tell them they just have to work harder.

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We have on the one hand several decades of the Greek government and voters demanding a level of public services and public spending far beyond the ability of the Greek economy to pay for.
That's an ideological and not a factual statement. Other countries had and have a public debt equal or even higher to that of Greece. It's whatever whim takes the financial parasites which country they will attack, and not the specific situation of that country which decides who's next on the target list.

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On the other hand, we have several years of international political and financial shenanigans that have triggered the particular present crisis and 'austerity' policies.
Austerity policies are entirely a politico-ideological choice. It's not even the intent to put the government's finances in order. On the contrary, while cutting all social programs e.g. military expenditures are increased to such an extent that the overall situation actually gets worse. Add to that the annihilation of the purchasing power of the population and you end up with a catastrophically worse situation exactly such as is seen now in Greece.
How is a population and a corresponding government expected to pay back 'debts' when either have literally no income?

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Is one set of financial shenanigans to blame while the other is innocent? Are they both guilty? Or both innocent?
The ordinary Greek isn't responsible. Prior and present self-proclaimed 'elites' are, in Greece and in Europe.
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  #20  
Old Jun 27th 2015, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Why Greece must declare Bankruptcy

Another very good column from Krugman on the Greek situation. The graphic speaks for itself.



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