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Old Oct 25th 2015, 12:58 AM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Debt collection

Just saw today an interesting episode of a weekend talk show I watch, this time was about debt and debt collection. I guess it has to do with bankruptcy recently being legalized in Russia, that is why they are talking about it lol

Whether you are a bank or a private person, if someone owes you a serious debt here, and you want to collect it, you have two venues.

The more respectable, legitimate way is to go to court, get an order for the debtor to pay you, and then have that enforced by bailiffs, who have a lot of legal authority, more than police in many ways, they can arrest property, as well as people

If your creditor locks themselves inside the property, unlike the police, who have to wait for additional paperwork, warrants and such, bailiffs can just kick the door down and drag him out hehe Debt enforcement is a serious matter in Russia.

Drawback of that, however, is the courts are busy and backlogged, and so it can take quite a bit of time to get an enforcement order.

This is why many creditors, corporate or private, end up entering the legally murky and ethically questionable world of "collector agencies".

"Collectors" are stereotyped (and feared) as thugs, gangsters in Adidas sport costumes, gold chains, and tattoos, mafia guys, basically, who come over and beat you until you pay your debt


The reality is, there are guys like that, and the further away you get from the relative civilization of Moscow, the more of that type there are. They will put a gun to your face

and cut your fingers off, one for each late payment

That does, unfortunately, happen.

Many these days though are a bit more sophisticated than that. At the very least, they may wear suits, instead of Adidas, and threaten you with papers, instead of knives, clubs, or guns


Rather than break your legs or cut off your fingers, they will use methods of "psychological pressure": persistent, constant phone calls and mail

These can be cursing and threatening, both with legal ramifications, through court and such, as well as physical violence (I have even heard of threats to have ones young daughter kidnapped and raped, among other things, it can be pretty vile).

They can resort to vandalism too, spray painting messages about your debt all over your apartment building


("Apartment [...] Debt") Sometimes, to be more intimidating, identify the people by name, as in the last photo, "Apartment 16 Pimenov Debt to bank"

They can spray paint your car too

"Pay back the money, bitch!"

If all this fails to "convince" you to pay the debt, than the aforementioned cruder methods start, the actual violence, often enough.

A collector can be hired by a creditor to collect the debt, working for a commission from the successful collection; or, alternatively, can buy the whole debt from the creditor and then he gets to collect all if it for himself.

It is a whole industry here these days, and pretty lawless one at that. I keep my firm out of it, it is dirty business, criminal business, I want no part of it. But other partners are pushing me on it... There is good money to be made there, some security firms do. But I refuse to sacrifice my principles. For now...
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Old Oct 26th 2015, 01:08 PM
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Dominick Dominick is offline
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Default Re: Debt collection

This is the same everywhere. Debt collection is basically legalized criminality. Usury, extortion, intimidation, false imprisonment, perjury, falsification of documents, etc., it's all good when it's done by a bank or financial institution.
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Old Oct 26th 2015, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Debt collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
... "Collectors" are stereotyped (and feared) as thugs, gangsters in Adidas sport costumes...
Vintage 1970's style no less!

I haven't seen anyone wear those Adidas track suits here since the 1970's - except Russian immigrants - you can always spot them by these hideous 1970's adidas blue track suits (with the three white stripes!) that they all seem to wear.
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Old Oct 27th 2015, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Debt collection

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Vintage 1970's style no less!

I haven't seen anyone wear those Adidas track suits here since the 1970's - except Russian immigrants - you can always spot them by these hideous 1970's adidas blue track suits (with the three white stripes!) that they all seem to wear.
Original Bratva (modern Russian mafia) groups wore Adidas or Nike back in late 1980s and early 90s

because most of them were "sportsmen", came out of wrestling and boxing gyms or karate dojos.

To this day, the trash of our criminal world, the street gangs and such, dress in that style


They still think it's cool, I guess lol

Actual mobsters prefer black leather jackets now


And funny ushanka hats, sometimes



Dominick, yes, it is a dirty line of work, as I say, and you are probably right, dirty everywhere.

Although, of course... Well... Banks and casinos and other establishments must collect or have others collect for them, to stay in business, that's the reality, unfortunately...
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Old Oct 28th 2015, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Debt collection

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Although, of course... Well... Banks and casinos and other establishments must collect or have others collect for them, to stay in business, that's the reality, unfortunately...
'Stay in business' ? Don't make me laugh. The people targeted by these methods are typically people with no access to legal aid (since they have no money to begin with) and typically represent very small loans in the context of global finance where a billion is small change. Even wiping the slate clean for all such debtors wouldn't affect the bank's results more than in the fourth or fifth significant digit. It may even cost more to apply these methods than they can recuperate from already insolvent people.
It's a power trip and nothing more.
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Old Jan 30th 2016, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Debt collection

Dmitry Ermilov, 44, former police officer turned debt collector in Ulyanovsk

has been arrested by court


As part of terrorizing a family who owed him a sum of money, Ermilov threw a Molotov cocktail into the window of their home. As a result, a two year old baby was injured


as was his grandfather, Ismail Guseynov, 56, the debt holder, who owed a measly 4,000 rubles to a local bank which then sold this debt to Ermilov.
http://www.ul.kp.ru/daily/26486.4/3355759/

Since the outcry about this case, it is now believed Ermilov has engaged in other arsons around the Ulyanovsk area as part of his deb collection activities. At least two other victims have come forward now: http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2714433

Ermilov is being charged with attempted murder: http://ren.tv/novosti/2016-01-29/ogn...ii-na-ubiystvo

Valentina Matvienko, Speaker of the Federation Council (Russian senate)

is now calling for a ban on all debt collection activities until tighter (or ANY) regulations are introduced on the industry: http://argumenti.ru/society/2016/01/432664
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Debt collection

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
Valentina Matvienko, Speaker of the Federation Council (Russian senate) is now calling for a ban on all debt collection activities until tighter (or ANY) regulations are introduced on the industry: http://argumenti.ru/society/2016/01/432664
Yes, establishing 'the rule of law' is necessary. Allowing arbitrary and violent debt collection is reckless and uncivilized.
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Old Feb 2nd 2016, 12:05 AM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Debt collection

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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Yes, establishing 'the rule of law' is necessary. Allowing arbitrary and violent debt collection is reckless and uncivilized.
I agree. Our banks do not. They are protesting Matvienko's words vigorously... Seems this is the only way they have to collect on mortgages, credits, loans, etc. Going through the courts is too slow, time consuming, and expensive...
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Old Apr 4th 2016, 11:24 PM
MeMyselfAndI MeMyselfAndI is offline
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Default Re: Debt collection

And yet another debt collection horror story.

A woman in the Novosibirsk region apparently borrowed 5,000 rubles in the past, from a quick cash service, but could not or did not pay it back at required time. With interest, by now, the amount has grown to 240,000 rubles (seriously).

Yesterday, apparently, four masked, armed men kicked down the door of her apartment where she was with her husband and 17 year old son. They beat the husband and the son, and then sexually violated the woman right in front of them. They took her mobile phone and warned her worse things will happen to her and her whole family, if she does not pay her debt soon.
http://lifenews.ru/news/194837
http://rg.ru/2016/04/04/reg-sibfo/v-...za-dolgov.html

They have contacted the police. I am not optimistic. Plenty of collectors are ex-police, like that Ermilov bastard. Hard to bring them to justice when their own brothers in uniform protect them
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Old Apr 14th 2016, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Debt collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI View Post
And yet another debt collection horror story.

A woman in the Novosibirsk region apparently borrowed 5,000 rubles in the past, from a quick cash service, but could not or did not pay it back at required time. With interest, by now, the amount has grown to 240,000 rubles (seriously).

Yesterday, apparently, four masked, armed men kicked down the door of her apartment where she was with her husband and 17 year old son. They beat the husband and the son, and then sexually violated the woman right in front of them. They took her mobile phone and warned her worse things will happen to her and her whole family, if she does not pay her debt soon.
http://lifenews.ru/news/194837
http://rg.ru/2016/04/04/reg-sibfo/v-...za-dolgov.html
Times 48 may sound extravagant to people who pay their mortgage on the dot but it won't surprise anyone who is or has ever been in financial difficulties. And that's anywhere including our 'civilized' western countries. I've seen times 30, times 15 in paperwork from bona fide (ah, the irony) banks. Incidentally that bank (Dexia) is the holding which has established most off shore companies through Mossack Fonseca. That's not a coincidence.
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